A great number told us, from Abi 'Abdallah al-Hussein Ibn Ali Ibn Sufyan al-Bazufry, from Ali Ibn Sinan al-Musali al-'Adl, from Ali Ibn al-Hussein, from Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn al-Khalil, from Ja'far Ibn Ahmad al-Masry, from his uncle al-Hassan Ibn Ali, from his father, from Abi Abdallah Ja'far Ibn Muhammad, from his father al-Baqir, from his father Dhi al-Thifnat Sayed al-'Abidin, from his father al-Hussein al-Zaki al-Shahid, from his father Amir al-Muminin:
The Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him and his family) said to Ali Ibn Abi Taleb during the night of his death: "O Father of Al Hassan, bring me a paper and a utensil", and he dictated his will until he came to a position where he said "O Ali, there will be twelve Imams and after them there will be twelve Mahdi's. You, O Ali, are the first of the twelve Imams, God has named you in his heavens Ali Al Mortada,The Prince of the believers, Grand truthful, the bright Farooq (Judge and differentiating between true and false), the trusted, and the Mahdi (rightly guided). These names may not be truly attributed to other than you. O Ali, you are my guardian on my own family, their living and their dead. My women, whom you maintain shall find me tomorrow, and whom you reject I am acquitted of her. I will not see her and she will not see me on the day of resurrection, and you are the successor (Khalifa) on my nation after me. If the day of death comes to you, hand it over to my son Hassan the very beneficial. Then if the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to my son al-Hussein, the Martyr, the Pure and the Assassinated. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, the master of the servants and worshipers Ali.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Muhammad al-Baqir.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ja'far al-Sadiq.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Musa al-Kadhim.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali al-Redha.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Muhammad al-Thiqa.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali al-Nasih (The Advisor). If the day death of comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, al-Hassan al-Fadil. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Muhammad the Mandate/Preserver of the Holy Family of Mohamad Peace be upon them all. These are the twelve Imams. Then there will be twelve Mahdi's after them. (If the day of death comes to him) let him hand it over to his son, the first of the close ones, he has three names, one like mine and my Father's: Abdollah (Servant of God), Ahmad and the third name is The Mahdi (the guided) and he is the first Believer."
111 - أخبرنا جماعة، عن أبي عبد الله الحسين بن علي بن سفيان البزوفري (1)، عن علي بن سنان الموصلي العدل، عن علي بن الحسين، عن أحمد بن محمد بن الخليل، عن جعفر بن أحمد المصري (2)، عن عمه الحسن بن علي، عن أبيه، عن أبي عبد الله جعفر بن محمد، عن أبيه الباقر، عن أبيه ذي الثفنات (3) سيد العابدين، عن أبيه الحسين الزكي الشهيد، عن أبيه أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم - في الليلة التي كانت فيها وفاته - لعلي عليه السلام: يا أبا الحسن أحضر صحيفة ودواة. فأملا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم وصيته حتى انتهى إلى هذا الموضع فقال: يا علي إنه سيكون بعدي اثنا عشر إماما ومن بعدهم إثنا عشر مهديا، فأنت يا علي أول الاثني عشر إماما سماك الله تعالى في سمائه (4): عليا المرتضى، وأمير المؤمنين، والصديق الأكبر، والفاروق الأعظم، والمأمون، والمهدي، فلا تصح هذه الأسماء لاحد غيرك. يا علي أنت وصيي على أهل بيتي حيهم وميتهم، وعلى نسائي: فمن ثبتها لقيتني غدا، ومن طلقتها فأنا برئ منها، لم ترني (5) ولم أرها في عرصة القيامة، وأنت خليفتي على أمتي من بعدي. فإذا (1) حضرتك الوفاة فسلمها إلى ابني الحسن البر الوصول (2)، فإذا حضرته الوفاة فليسلمها إلى ابني الحسين الشهيد الزكي المقتول، فإذا حضرته الوفاة فليسلمها إلى ابنه سيد العابدين ذي الثفنات علي، فإذا حضرته الوفاة فليسلمها إلى ابنه محمد الباقر (3)، فإذا حضرته الوفاة فليسلمها إلى ابنه جعفر الصادق، فإذا حضرته الوفاة فليسلمها إلى ابنه موسى الكاظم، فإذا حضرته الوفاة فليسلمها إلى ابنه علي الرضا، فإذا حضرته الوفاة فليسلمها إلى ابنه محمد الثقة التقي، فإذا حضرته الوفاة فليسلمها إلى ابنه علي الناصح، فإذا حضرته الوفاة فليسلمها إلى ابنه الحسن الفاضل، فإذا حضرته الوفاة فليسلمها إلى ابنه محمد المستحفظ من آل محمد عليهم السلام. فذلك اثنا عشر إماما، ثم يكون من بعده اثنا عشر مهديا، (فإذا حضرته الوفاة) (4) فليسلمها إلى ابنه أول المقربين (5) له ثلاثة أسامي: اسم كإسمي واسم أبي وهو عبد الله وأحمد، والاسم الثالث: المهدي، هو أول المؤمنين (6).
- Kitab al-Ghayba of Sheikh al-Tusi, Page 150-151
The answers will be in several points.
First, the previous narration says that the number of Imam is twelve, and the number of Mahdis is twelve, and al-Hassan Ibn al-Hujjah is the last Imam and the Mahdi among the signs of its appearance is the emergence of the Yamani. Certainly, they are - Twelve - and they consider that al-Hujjah Ibn al-Hassan is from the twelve Mahdis and by this you come to the following result:
If al-Hujjah Ibn al-Hassan is from the twelve Mahdi only without the twelve Imam; then the number of Imam becomes eleven and not twelve as the previous narration state.
If al-Hujjah Ibn al-Hassan is from the twelve Mahdi and from the twelve Imam; then the total number of Imam and Mahdis becomes 23 and not 24.
Second, the narration that Ahmad al-Hassan use to support what he claim state that there will be twelve Mahdis but there is also another narration which says there will be eleven Mahdis in the same book narrated by al-Tusi:
Muhammad Ibn Abdallah Ibn Ja'far al-Hamiri, from his father, from Muhammad Ibn al-Hamid and Muhammad Ibn 'Issah, from Muhammad Ibn al-Fudhayl, from Abi Hamza, from Abi 'Abdillah (as) in a long narration that he said: "O Aba Hamza there will be from us (Ahlul-Bayt) eleven Mahdis after the Qaim from the sons of Hussain (as)."
محمد بن عبد الله بن جعفر الحميري، عن أبيه، عن محمد بن عبد الحميد (2) ومحمد بن عيسى، عن محمد بن الفضيل (3)، عن أبي حمزة، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام في حديث طويل أنه قال: يا أبا حمزة إن منا بعد القائم أحد عشر مهديا من ولد الحسين عليه السلام (4).
- Kitab al-Ghayba of Sheikh al-Tusi, Page 478
Here it says twelve and it is written as the other previous text except for the beginning.
Muntakhab al-Basair, of what narrated al-Sayed Ali Ibn Abdel-Hamid from his chain to al-Sadiq (as) that he said "There will be from us (Ahlul-Bayt) twelve Mahdis after the Qaim from the sons of Hussain (as)."
7 - منتخب البصائر: مما رواه السيد علي بن عبد الحميد بإسناده عن الصادق عليه السلام أن منا بعد القائم عليه السلام اثنا عشر مهديا من ولد الحسين عليه السلام.
- Bihar al-Anwar of Allamah Baqir al-Majlissi, Vol.53, Page 148
The question: Are the Mahdis eleven or twelve? Ahmad al-Hassan can not reply to this confusion because he does not believe in the science of hadith (ilm al-rijal) then if he takes the first story he must also take the second story and this contradicts what he preaches.
Third, we (Ithna Ashari) say that al-Hujjah Ibn al-Hassan is in occultation and he is alive but we don't know where he exactly is. According to our pillars and our belief who is the Hujjah (proof of Allah) at this time? Is al-Hujjah Ibn al-Hassan or Ahmad al-Hassan? If you answer Ahmad al-Hassan then the role of al-Hujjah Ibn al-Hassan collapse. If you answer al-Hujjah Ibn al-Hassan so what is the evidence for Ahmad al-Hassan being the proof? And how can he be al-Hujjah?
Fourth, we find that the narration of Ahmad al-Hassan contradicts the narration of the twelve Mahdis - as they preach - So how Ahmad al-Hassan can say that he is al-Yamani and at the same time that he is one of the twelve Mahdi? Knowing that the twelve Mahdis comes after al-Hujjah Ibn al-Hassan and are among the signs of his appearance. How it does not contradict itself and how can he reconcile this and that?
Fifth, the narration that Ahmad al-Hassan use say, "If the day of death comes to him let him hand it over to his son, the first of the close ones, he has three names, one like mine and my Father's: Abdollah (Servant of God), Ahmad and the third name is The Mahdi (the guided) and he is the first Believer." So the question we ask, did al-Hujjah Ibn al-Hassan die (as the others) to give the command to Ahmad al-Hassan?
Sixth, the narration that Ahmad al-Hassan use have no authentic chain, and this is the case if the group of Ahmad al-Hassan wanted to use narration at least they should use it on the basis that they are authentic but instead of that they show the illness of the chain and show that it contain unknow people.
Regarding Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn al-Khalil it is stated by Sheikh 'Ali al-Nimari al-Shahrudi in his Mustadrak 'Ilm al-Rijal where he say: "Ahmad Ibn Muhammad al-Khalil Abu 'Abdallah: He didn't mention him (nothing about him)."
1532 - أحمد بن محمد بن الخليل أبو عبد الله: لم يذكروه،
- Mustadrak 'Ilm al-Rijal, Vol.1, Page 434
Regarding Ja'far Ibn Ahmad al-Masry it is stated by Sheikh 'Ali al-Nimari al-Shahrudi in his Mustadrak 'Ilm al-Rijal where he say: "Ja'far Ibn Ahmad al-Masry: He didn't mention him (nothing about him)."
2810 - جعفر بن محمد بن علي المصري: لم يذكروه.
- Mustadrak 'Ilm al-Rijal, Vol.2, Page 208
Response to first point:
ReplyDeleteAbu Abdullah pbuh said:"On the head of the seventh one from us is the Faraj(relief)"Gaibat AlToosi p.53
وحدّثني حنان بن سدير ، عن أبي إسماعيل الأبرص ، عن ابي بصير ، قال : قال أبو عبد الله ( الصادق ) " ع " : على رأس السابع منا الفرج
Sheikh AlToosi"It is possible that the 7th one is from him because its apparent from his word"From us" it is an indication to himself and also we say from him[he]AlQaem[with the matter].And the report doesn't have "the seventh one from our first" and if what we say is possible, then the conflict drops"
Gaibat AlToosi p.54
So the 7th one from Imam AlSaadiq pbuh is the Faraj(the relief) of Ahlulbayt a.s. and that is through Ahmed the son of Imam AlMahdi pbuh.
يحتمل أن يكون السابع منه لأنه الظاهر من قوله منا إشارة إلى نفسه وكذلك نقول السابع منه هو القائم بالأمر. وليس في الخبر السابع من أولنا وإذا احتمل ما قلناه سقطت المعارضة به.
And another hadeeth proves this again from Imam AlSaadiq pbuh:
Imam AlSaadeq pbuh said:"From us after the Messenger pbuhap are 7 Imam successors where obeying them is obligatory, the 7th one is the Riser if it was willed for him, for verily Allah is the Exalted and Wise, he advances whom He wants and delays whom He wants and He is the Exalted and wise and then after the Qaim(Riser)are 11 Mahdis from the son of AlHussain..[..]."
ان منا بعد الرسول صم سبعة اوصياء ائمة مفترضة طاعتهم سابعهم القائم انشاء له ان الله عزيز حكيم يقدم ما يشاء ويؤخر ما يشاء وهو العزيز الحكيم ثم بعد القائم احد عشر مهديا من ولد الحسين
Usool AlSitata Ashar p.91
So following with what Sheikh AlToosi said when he refuted the claims of the Waqifis, he explained that "from us" means from Imam AlSaadiq pbuh. And this hadeeth is speaking about 7 Imams after Imam AlSaadiq pbuh because after the 7th one who is the Qaim are 11 Mahdis.
"and then after the Qaim(Riser)are 11 Mahdis from the son of AlHussain..[..]."
So from here we understand that Ahmed is the Qaim and the 7th one after Imam AlSaadip pbuh because there are 11 Mahdis after Ahmed who is mentioned in the Prophet's will and not 11 Mahdis after Imam AlMahdi a.s. or 11 Mahdis after Imam Musa AlKathem because this will be empty from meaning.
These hadeeths are supported with this other hadeeth:
From Abi Abdullah pbuh in a long hadeeth he said:"O Aba Hamza,from us after the Qaim are 11 Mahdis from the children of Hussain pbuh"
Mentioned in four reliable sources:
Gaibat AlToosi p.478 460 A.H
Mukhtasar Basaer Darajat p.38 900 A.H
Bihar AlAnwar v.53 p.145 111. A.H
Muntakhab AlAnwar AlMuthee'a p.201 8th century A.H
الغيبة للطوسي (460 هـ) صفحة478 فصل 8 في ذكر طرف من صفاته ومنازله وسيرته ع
http://www.al-shia.org/html/ara/books/l ... i/a23.html
504 - محمد بن عبد الله بن جعفر الحميري عن أبيه عن محمد بن عبد الحميد ومحمد بن عيسى عن محمد بن الفضيل عن أبي حمزة عن أبي عبد الله ع في حديث طويل أنه قال : يا أبا حمزة إن منا بعد القائم أحد عشر مهديا من ولد الحسين ع
مختصر بصائر الدرجات للحسن بن سليمان الحلي (القرن 9 هـ) صفحة38
http://www.yasoob.com/books/htm1/m012/10/no1026.html
رويت بإسنادي إليه عن محمد بن عبد الله بن جعفر الحميري عن أبيه عن محمد بن عبد الحميد ومحمد بن عيسى عن محمد بن الفضيل عن أبي حمزة عن أبي عبد الله ع . في حديث طويل أنه قال يا با حمزة أن منا بعد القائم أحد عشر مهديا من ولد الحسين ع .
بحار الأنوار للمجلسي (1111 هـ) الجزء53 صفحة145 باب30 خلفاء المهدي ع وأولاده وما يكون بعده
http://www.al-shia.org/html/ara/books/l ... 15.html#t3
2 - غيبة الشيخ الطوسي : محمد الحميري عن أبيه عن محمد بن عبد الحميد ومحمد بن عيسى عن محمد بن الفضيل عن أبي حمزة عن أبي عبد الله ع في حديث طويل أنه قال : يا با حمزة إن منا بعد القائم أحد عشر مهديا من ولد الحسين ع
almawood.alhakeem.com/books/motakab/08.htm
Muntakhab AlAnwar AlMuthee'a p.201 8th century A.H
So after the Qaim Ahmed are 11 Mahdis.
Why are you talking about a sect if I will talk about twelve Mahdi, and the eleven who have no connection with your narration of the seven? Why this out subject?
DeleteNow I didn't know that the Ahmad al-Hassan is the Qaim, any other lie like this without any proof? And after all that you werent able to answer my point which show that you can't.
And to make it more easier because you probably have no brain (because you follow an idiot like Ahmad al-Hassan) I uptade the article, thank you.
DeleteHere it says twelve and it is written as the other previous text except for the beginning.
Muntakhab al-Basair, of what narrated al-Sayed Ali Ibn Abdel-Hamid from his chain to al-Sadiq (as) that he said "There will be from us (Ahlul-Bayt) twelve Mahdis after the Qaim from the sons of Hussain (as)."
7 - منتخب البصائر: مما رواه السيد علي بن عبد الحميد بإسناده عن الصادق عليه السلام أن منا بعد القائم عليه السلام اثنا عشر مهديا من ولد الحسين عليه السلام.
- Bihar al-Anwar of Allamah Baqir al-Majlissi, Vol.53, Page 148
Now both say from us... Deal with it.
And by the way my first response is also a response to the second :)
ReplyDeleteAnd also the hadeeth about the 12 Mahdis after the Qaim, its talking about Imam AlMahdi a.s. because after the Qaim Imam AlMahdi a.s. according to the Prophet's will is Ahmed and after the Qaim Ahmed are 11 Mahdis. Its proven in narrations that there are Risers Qwaam even a Shia Usooli scholar of Ilm AlRijal proves that:
Sheikh Ali AlNumazi Book of Mustadrak Safeenat AlBihaar he said commentating on the narrations that speak of the offspring of Imam Al Mahdi(a.s):"It is a clarification about the purpose of the narration from Abi Hamza and the narration of Muntakhab AlBasa'er,so that there is no confusion from it and what has been evident from what is other than it, after Imam AlQa'em(the Riser)are 12 Mahdis,and they are guiders from the successors of the Riser,and they are Risers by his matter,so that the Zaman(epoch) will not be vacant without a Proof(Hujja)" Mustadrak Safeenat AlBihaar v.10 p.517
Response to third point:
e one with the confusion says it is mentioned that two Hujjas cannot be joined together at one time only if one of them is silent and the other is speaking. And you would ask do you say that Ahmed AlHasan is Naatiq(speaking)and Imam AlMahdi a.s. is silent?
The answer is: Yes but you must understand the correct meaning from it. The correct meaning is that one of them must be speaking when they are joined together in one time and place. As for other than that, it is possible that they both are speaking proofs. For when the Messenger of Allah s.a.w went to Tabuk and appointed Ali the Prince of the believers, was the Prince of the believers speaking(Naatiq)?Yes, he was speaking with the presence of the Messenger of Allah but not during the same place and likewise Aaron was quiet whenever he was joined with Moses pbuh in one place and time. And he(Aaron)was speaking when Moses went to his Lord for example, Aaron was speaking.
And what relates to Imam AlMahdi a.s., for he is either raised like the raising of Jesus or that he was in Gaiba. If you said that he was raised like the raising of Jesus a.s.: Did Jesus a.s. have executors? And who is the Hujja that is speaking after Jesus?
If you rejected the executors of Jesus a.s. you would have taken yourself out of religion and if you say that there are executors after Jesus , then that is correct because the speaker was the executor Simon.
And if you said that Imam AlMahdi is not raised but he is absent from this earth, Ibraheem and Loot were proofs of Allah on the same time and they were speaking proofs of Allah altogether and like Yusef and Jacob pbut.
And you might say that the speaking Hujja is always better than the one quiet and that is incorrect. For many of those who were quiet were better than the speaking.For example Imam AlMahdi a.s. is better than his father but he was a silent Hujja. From Abu Abdullah(Imam Jaafer a.s)from his fathers a.s he said:"Prophet of Allah says:"And he chose from me Ali,Hassan,and Hussein and the completion of the 12 Imams from the son of Hussein, the 9th of them is the inner(of them),and he is the outer,he is the best of them,and he is the Qa'em(the one who stands)".Gaiba Al Numani p.73
You didn't answer nor my third point nor the first or the second, actually can you post something and try to refute something? When I ask a question please answer it.
DeleteAnd speak with proof and do not spam otherwise I'll delete it because I do not accept robot.